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hi everybody it's alex karras from

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skipped co want to give you a quick

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youtube introduction to this interview

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that i posted on a couple months ago and

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we did a look at the movie we started

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this new series skeptical at the movies

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where we kind of look at these movies

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from the perspective of consciousness

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science skepticism spirituality all the

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stuff we talked about here on skeptic oh

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so this is not a super popular one in

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terms of sharing but it was fun to talk

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to I invited the my friends from

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comerica and Darren and Graham and red

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pill junkie and we kind of talked about

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this movie red lights which I and the

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headline said you know is this the worst

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movie about cursed psychology ever made

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because in some respects it is it's just

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really a hack job and in particular what

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they really really really hacked was

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this uh incident or this real life

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history of where srri Stanford Research

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Institute did this experiment with Uri

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Geller and they prepared this video you

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can actually go watch this video of

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these real scientists you knew what they

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were doing testing regular and they do a

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reenactment of that in this movie and

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they do it really they totally twist it

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around the totally the opposite of what

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it is but hey it's a movie so what do

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you expect anyways we had fun talking

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about all this kind of stuff thanks to

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graham and darren and r pj for for

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joining me so check it out i hope you

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episode of skeptic oh come on I reckon

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is a break serious work we're doing up

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there we started with scores of 2.1 you

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know nothing to write home about I know

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but in the last couple of weeks and

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scored three point four four four point

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six and the chances the difference

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announced a coincidence is two and a

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hundred mark Paul to in a hundred she's

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not impressed all right all right Tom go

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ahead and start class without being a

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hundred as it and parapsychology

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researcher would be excited about I

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won't be long so what is it this time so

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I kick photography retrocognition remote

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fishing lepas of drawings sealed

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envelopes car Jenica double-blind triple

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blind symptom i wanna do too much so I

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take it from your enthusiasm you just

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welcome to skeptic oh where we explore

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controversial science with leading

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researchers thinkers and their critics

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i'm your host Alex Karras and on this

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episode well we're going to try a little

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something new and different i'm calling

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it skeptic Oh at the movies and the idea

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is to look at some modern movies film TV

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shows through the lens of consciousness

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science spirituality and some of the

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general ideas that we talk a lot about

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on this show I think it's going to be

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fun I love going to the movies but I

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often feel that some of the stuff I find

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interesting or controversial or even

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stuff that I don't like about the movies

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is left unsaid and I thought here would

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be the place to say it so as you'll see

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I'm inviting some other folks to join in

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this dialogue and have a little bit of a

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roundtable discussion the first film

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we've chosen is red lights a 2012 movie

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starring sigourney weaver and robert de

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niro that is right up our alley in terms

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of parapsychology and in terms of the

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contorted twisted view that science

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seems to have of how skepticism and

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debunking works and all the rest of that

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so a lot of fodder for discussion and

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and I think we had a good time talking

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about that I hope you enjoy it if you do

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stay tuned there's a couple of other

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segments that we recorded on different

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movies I'm probably going to publish

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those in the next couple days as well

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just kind of get them all out there and

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in separate files so you can choose

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which ones you want to listen to but

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anyways the first one here is red lights

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Gillison hope you enjoy it

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welcome to skeptical everybody and

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welcome to a new special edition of

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skeptical at the movies it's kind of a

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new thing I'm trying out here and we're

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going to take a look at controversial

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science and skepticism as it's being

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portrayed in film and on TV and I'm

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really glad to be doing this segment and

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I was just telling the guys here well

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introduced you to in a minute that this

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is really much needed because my wife is

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sick and frick and tired of me going

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into my rants when we're watching a film

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and wanting to fill in an hour of

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backstory while she just wants to get on

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and watch the plot and watch the film so

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it's great to have some folks with me

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where we can maybe dig into some of this

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stuff a little bit deeper and talk about

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how it relates to controversial science

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and just paranormal stuff in general and

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to do that with me I've invited some

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folks I want to introduce you to so

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let's do some introductions first from

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the very fantastic crime erica podcast

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we have Darren Grimes and Graham Dunlop

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guys are welcome glad you're joining me

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hey thanks for having us Alex yeah

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thanks Alex it's an honor to be here

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what are you one of my favorite podcast

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what am I listen to like at once yeah

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that's true one of the originals

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actually wewe stole a bit of your style

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for the first couple episodes and I had

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my wife reading the the little intro but

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is that your wife that reads a hill yeah

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I gotta get something you know she's and

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then I took her off of itchy I just took

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the first clip you know now I replay it

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every time she's like hey you know what

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what do you know you're not using me for

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that morals like I don't think you

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wanted to do that anymore so that's cool

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but I I think your guys show is great

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and anyone who hasn't checked out grow

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America will obviously have a link to it

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here in the show notes but Darren and

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Graham have done a great job with the

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show it's got this fantastic banter it's

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fun but it also is serious in terms of

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the guests they have our top notch and

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they do a great job of interviewing and

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probing and getting

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had some hard questions so I'm a huge

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Comerica fan and it's great to have you

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guys join me and the fourth member of

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this roundtable skeptical at the movies

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crowd we have is also a freak there's

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also a frequent contributor to grow

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America he's also a blogger very well

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known on the daily grill sometimes read

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I think you do stuff for mysterious

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universe as well the one and only

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joining us from Mexico City red pill

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junkie ray que pasa skeptical listeners

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hahaha I'm sure I'm sure they're all

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saying when we win oh good it's great

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it's great to have you as well and I'm

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anxious to do this show this is going to

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be so fun you have been looking forward

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to this one for a while mm-hmm so here's

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what I thought we'd do we are going to

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take these movies we've kind of

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pre-planned these movies folks and each

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one of us has picked out one that we

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thought had special interest to us and

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then we're going to lead a little

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discussion we're all going to get in

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there and talk a little bit about it and

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then we'll move on to the next one and I

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think I'm going to break these up into

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separate movies so that we can put them

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out because I think it's kind of hard to

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mash for these together there may be

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some that you're not interested in and

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then you can kind of pick one that you

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may want to dig into deeper in this

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format so the one that I have selected

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we will jump right into it's called red

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lights it was released in 2012 you can

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stream it for free on Netflix if you

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have netflix it stars Sigourney Weaver

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and another male in performance from

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Robert De Niro when is the sky kind of

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return to his prior form on that this is

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not in this movie it's another mail it

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in kind of job that he does and it is oh

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this is just a classic this if you're

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into skeptical if you're into

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parapsychology if you're in decide this

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will make your blood boil this movie

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it's about professional quote unquote

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skeptics at a university that being

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Sigourney Weaver and her

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it's a little colleague there who are

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trying to prove or debunk this world

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famous psychic that fills stadiums and

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yes as these amazing powers played by

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Robert De Niro who of course is lying

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about his ability and it's faking and is

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using little earpiece to get all his

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information spoiler alert spoiler oh by

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the way you know in terms of spoiler

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alert here folks if you are listening to

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the show and you haven't seen these

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movies you can still I think enjoy it

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but it is we cannot guarantee that we're

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going to pull back any kind of protect

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you from the spoiler alert factor that's

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going to be all over this thing so I've

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just kind of told you a little bit about

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that he isn't really for real but that

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is De Niro as he's being played in this

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movie so that's the film red lights and

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I thought we might start with playing a

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little clip I'm gonna play a little clip

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for you from the movie and this is a

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scene where Sigourney Weaver who against

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a warning Sigourney Weaver is playing

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the role of this scientist who goes

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around and is her primary job to debunk

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all kinds of parapsychology and she's

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working at a university we're on the

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floor above her is essentially the Rhine

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restore the Rhine Research Institute if

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any of you remember I mean the most

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famous ESP Research Institute in the

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world I mean that is akin to what is

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above her and she keeps running into

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this little guy who's trying to win her

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favor by telling her about this

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fantastic sigh experiment that she has

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and how it's really working this time

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and this clip will give you a little

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feel for that let me go ahead and play

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that come on my great game is a break

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serious work we're doing up there we

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started with scores of 2.1 you know

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nothing to write home about

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in the last couple of weeks and scored

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three point four four four point six and

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the chance is the difference in Downton

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coincidences two and a hundred mark Paul

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to in a hundred she's not impressed all

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right all right Tom go ahead and start

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class without meeting tomato hundred

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isn't as it and parapsychology

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researcher would be excited about I

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won't be long so what is it this time

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psychic photography retro cognition

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remote visual episode drawings sealed

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envelopes car Jenica double-blind triple

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blind symptom of wine I did it myself I

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take it from your enthusiasm you just

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did a test that's right were you facing

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your subject sure what about them they

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were in the control booth monitoring

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subject who is monitoring you me why

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would anyone want to be monitoring me

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it's a joke so were you at the same I

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level as the subject fractionally yes

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all right I guess yes the master

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debunker more or less I guess you have

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the cards with you know I I don't have

270
00:12:07,439 --> 00:12:03,990
those users okay shoot did you mention

271
00:12:15,420 --> 00:12:07,449
go ahead so she's now gonna be a subject

272
00:12:17,490 --> 00:12:15,430
in the CSP experiment square cross is

273
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:17,500
right again amazing she must have ESP

274
00:12:27,059 --> 00:12:24,610
square square star wait are you doing

275
00:12:29,189 --> 00:12:27,069
methodological defense no they're not

276
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:29,199
transparent we made sure proper controls

277
00:12:35,009 --> 00:12:31,360
the inadvertent inclusion of relevant

278
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:35,019
data or in this case all three at the

279
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same time congratulations next time try

280
00:12:47,069 --> 00:12:42,730
taking them off first and there you go

281
00:12:50,579 --> 00:12:47,079
the debunking of the Zener cards by

282
00:12:53,759 --> 00:12:50,589
Sigourney Weaver because the reflection

283
00:12:56,189 --> 00:12:53,769
of the light off the parapsychology

284
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researcher allowed her to see all the

285
00:13:01,740 --> 00:12:58,059
cards but what I thought was really

286
00:13:04,290 --> 00:13:01,750
interesting about this clip is if you go

287
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:04,300
back and look at the original research

288
00:13:09,780 --> 00:13:07,839
that Rhine did at the ryan research

289
00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:09,790
institute was which was really the

290
00:13:15,059 --> 00:13:11,769
pioneering work that

291
00:13:18,929 --> 00:13:15,069
was done in ESP it was done it at Duke

292
00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:18,939
it was a offshoot of Duke they had

293
00:13:24,179 --> 00:13:21,910
extraordinary success that they got like

294
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:24,189
up and they were in separate buildings I

295
00:13:29,669 --> 00:13:27,839
mean the idea you cannot create a simple

296
00:13:31,889 --> 00:13:29,679
parapsychology experiment like this

297
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:31,899
where one person holds up a card and the

298
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:33,730
other person has to guess what that card

299
00:13:38,819 --> 00:13:35,920
is and that you can't do proper blinding

300
00:13:41,069 --> 00:13:38,829
I mean hell anyone can go on youtube and

301
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:41,079
watch videos of kindergartners doing

302
00:13:45,479 --> 00:13:42,970
this where they just put a a card but

303
00:13:49,139 --> 00:13:45,489
piece of cardboard between them no fool

304
00:13:52,789 --> 00:13:49,149
would try and do this face-to-face with

305
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:52,799
the other person and it just to me is so

306
00:14:00,629 --> 00:13:56,730
hilariously Hollywood eyes doja know of

307
00:14:03,539 --> 00:14:00,639
what they think is really going on or

308
00:14:05,939 --> 00:14:03,549
what has happened in parapsychology I

309
00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:05,949
found the whole thing just so

310
00:14:12,749 --> 00:14:09,040
over-the-top I mean it's like reading

311
00:14:14,850 --> 00:14:12,759
right out of skeptics magazine and it

312
00:14:17,429 --> 00:14:14,860
was just an interesting portrayal of how

313
00:14:19,289 --> 00:14:17,439
they did that in the film did you guys

314
00:14:21,090 --> 00:14:19,299
have a chance to watch red lights what

315
00:14:24,059 --> 00:14:21,100
do you think yeah I watched some of it

316
00:14:26,789 --> 00:14:24,069
and I caught the part that you just clip

317
00:14:28,350 --> 00:14:26,799
there and I found it interesting like

318
00:14:30,210 --> 00:14:28,360
she it's she acts like as if there's

319
00:14:31,410 --> 00:14:30,220
ever never any double-blind studies or

320
00:14:32,939 --> 00:14:31,420
there's never actually real any real

321
00:14:35,009 --> 00:14:32,949
science that it's all fake and that's

322
00:14:37,549 --> 00:14:35,019
what bugged me about it is they make it

323
00:14:39,929 --> 00:14:37,559
seem like it's all charlatans and and

324
00:14:43,289 --> 00:14:39,939
there's not you know nothing real going

325
00:14:46,049 --> 00:14:43,299
on they're not entirely that's what

326
00:14:50,129 --> 00:14:46,059
that's the gist like oh yeah there's a

327
00:14:53,309 --> 00:14:50,139
twist what um yeah it's definitely it's

328
00:14:56,129 --> 00:14:53,319
tough to say if it's skeptical or if

329
00:14:59,280 --> 00:14:56,139
it's just that poorly done you know like

330
00:15:03,119 --> 00:14:59,290
just poorly researched know if it's it's

331
00:15:04,319 --> 00:15:03,129
got that skeptical been doing for sure

332
00:15:06,539 --> 00:15:04,329
is that what you think you think it's

333
00:15:08,669 --> 00:15:06,549
like disinfo skepticism or it's like

334
00:15:13,019 --> 00:15:08,679
trying to get a point across or I think

335
00:15:14,999 --> 00:15:13,029
it's just a half-assed movie no I don't

336
00:15:17,580 --> 00:15:15,009
think so they they Diggle out of their

337
00:15:21,540 --> 00:15:17,590
way to I think to just

338
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:21,550
to be very d bunky what do you think

339
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:23,650
Alex well I think that's interesting

340
00:15:30,330 --> 00:15:26,170
Darren I mean are they trying to kind of

341
00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:30,340
make a point or are they just bungling a

342
00:15:35,130 --> 00:15:33,550
movie to get to the end like you're

343
00:15:37,830 --> 00:15:35,140
talking about i mean at the end that the

344
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:37,840
twist is here is the ultimate debunker

345
00:15:42,210 --> 00:15:39,610
who debunks everything then her

346
00:15:46,380 --> 00:15:42,220
colleague is actually the one who has

347
00:15:48,450 --> 00:15:46,390
this psychic effect that he is bringing

348
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:48,460
to these experiments so that's supposed

349
00:15:52,620 --> 00:15:50,410
to be the big twist in it so in that way

350
00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:52,630
I guess you could say the plot demanded

351
00:15:58,260 --> 00:15:55,630
that they exaggerate the difference

352
00:16:01,620 --> 00:15:58,270
between these the skeptics and the

353
00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:01,630
believers that's that's that I so you

354
00:16:04,710 --> 00:16:03,310
know it's just like that's why I don't

355
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:04,720
know I think it's less you know I don't

356
00:16:08,850 --> 00:16:06,250
think it's really meant to be skeptical

357
00:16:11,730 --> 00:16:08,860
ik i think but it definitely doesn't

358
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:11,740
portray parapsychology and stuff like

359
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:14,410
that in a very good light well but then

360
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:17,050
again i think it portrays it pretty

361
00:16:23,940 --> 00:16:20,410
consistent with what a large percentage

362
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:23,950
of people believe because certainly you

363
00:16:30,110 --> 00:16:26,320
know I and prepare for this if you just

364
00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:30,120
Google Zener cards what pops up

365
00:16:36,630 --> 00:16:33,070
wikipedia and the first sentence is you

366
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:36,640
know this has been discredited it there

367
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:38,530
so there was this original work work by

368
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:40,090
the rhine research institute and it was

369
00:16:43,890 --> 00:16:41,890
discredited because it showed that there

370
00:16:46,140 --> 00:16:43,900
were sensory leakage I mean it's right

371
00:16:48,630 --> 00:16:46,150
out of the script of this movie or such

372
00:16:50,490 --> 00:16:48,640
as completely complete nonsense that's

373
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:50,500
crazy you know the other thing in the

374
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:51,850
movie and I won't play the clip because

375
00:16:55,050 --> 00:16:53,890
I don't want to go on too long but later

376
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:55,060
in the movie one of the things they do

377
00:17:01,410 --> 00:16:58,480
is they play this that it's all leading

378
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:01,420
up to this report that they're going to

379
00:17:10,770 --> 00:17:07,600
issue and the report is just it sounds

380
00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:10,780
exactly like the report that you can

381
00:17:15,570 --> 00:17:13,390
listen to from sr I Stanford Research

382
00:17:18,750 --> 00:17:15,580
Institute that they did when they tested

383
00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:18,760
hurry Geller and I just can't think it's

384
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:21,130
an accident at all because they even

385
00:17:26,340 --> 00:17:23,170
make it sound like it's you know this

386
00:17:28,620 --> 00:17:26,350
kind of scratchy staticky kind of

387
00:17:30,460 --> 00:17:28,630
voiceover kind of think just like the

388
00:17:32,110 --> 00:17:30,470
stanford research report

389
00:17:35,049 --> 00:17:32,120
and yet they have it in this movie and

390
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:35,059
the point is that they've been duped

391
00:17:40,270 --> 00:17:37,610
that these brilliant scientists have

392
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:40,280
been duped by this guy and of course

393
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:43,039
that's what James Randi came out with he

394
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:45,200
said all that work at stanford research

395
00:17:53,020 --> 00:17:49,520
institute by uri geller those stupid

396
00:17:56,380 --> 00:17:53,030
researchers how put off the rest of them

397
00:17:57,820 --> 00:17:56,390
they all got duped and if you dig into

398
00:18:00,669 --> 00:17:57,830
that I mean it's just exactly the

399
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:00,679
opposite Randy lied randy said the

400
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:02,450
videographer the guy who filmed it you

401
00:18:05,799 --> 00:18:04,610
know confessed that it was all lie and

402
00:18:07,539 --> 00:18:05,809
the guy came out the guy's name is

403
00:18:10,029 --> 00:18:07,549
Pressman he came out he said that's

404
00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:10,039
completely ridiculous I didn't fake any

405
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:12,289
of it it's all genuine it's all real and

406
00:18:15,850 --> 00:18:14,240
Randy had to back down a little be said

407
00:18:19,630 --> 00:18:15,860
well you know that's that's what I heard

408
00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:19,640
after it published the book so i don't

409
00:18:26,860 --> 00:18:22,820
know if it's accidental or you know if

410
00:18:30,490 --> 00:18:26,870
it's poor research but the the extent to

411
00:18:33,700 --> 00:18:30,500
which it fits perfectly with this common

412
00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:33,710
you know mean that's out there about the

413
00:18:38,860 --> 00:18:35,840
whole thing of parapsychology it's done

414
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:38,870
they never came up with anything wow i

415
00:18:43,090 --> 00:18:40,610
just thought it's it's pretty amazing

416
00:18:46,299 --> 00:18:43,100
that that the extent to which they got

417
00:18:48,130 --> 00:18:46,309
it completely backwards is almost too

418
00:18:49,810 --> 00:18:48,140
hard to accept as being purely chance

419
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:49,820
yeah you never seem to hear the other

420
00:18:55,630 --> 00:18:52,130
side of it where these uh these hardcore

421
00:18:59,320 --> 00:18:55,640
skeptics are are you know being

422
00:19:00,909 --> 00:18:59,330
disingenuous i just heard about Philip

423
00:19:03,250 --> 00:19:00,919
class and I don't know if this is true

424
00:19:06,850 --> 00:19:03,260
or not but I heard he he tried to offer

425
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:06,860
some of the guys in the Travis Walton um

426
00:19:13,149 --> 00:19:10,730
account uh-huh $10,000 I think to to say

427
00:19:14,529 --> 00:19:13,159
that it was a it was a hoax i mean and i

428
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:14,539
don't know if that's that's true or not

429
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:17,210
but it you know it's it's interesting

430
00:19:23,860 --> 00:19:20,330
how he's this you know number one UFO

431
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:23,870
debunker paid by apparently paid by the

432
00:19:28,890 --> 00:19:26,330
government or nefarious groups and you

433
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:28,900
know offering offering people money to

434
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:32,330
to say things or hoaxes you know why

435
00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:35,130
don't we ever hear about that

436
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:38,710
so anything else you guys thought from

437
00:19:45,660 --> 00:19:40,570
red lights that kind of drew your

438
00:19:47,010 --> 00:19:45,670
attention I like how I like the end I

439
00:19:49,230 --> 00:19:47,020
like the end when it's kind of when

440
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:49,240
buddy turns out to have the because it

441
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:50,770
seems like his powers are limited to

442
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:53,170
like electronics and that that to me

443
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:56,080
almost could come into some sort of

444
00:20:00,060 --> 00:19:57,490
realm of possibility i guess because

445
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:00,070
that'd be some some sort of electronic

446
00:20:04,350 --> 00:20:02,650
or magnetic field control which i mean

447
00:20:06,110 --> 00:20:04,360
to me isn't out of the realm of

448
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:06,120
possibility and I'm pretty skeptical

449
00:20:11,370 --> 00:20:09,130
skeptical about that sort of stuff but

450
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:11,380
you know I could see like you know how

451
00:20:14,669 --> 00:20:12,850
he's able to like blow up the circuit

452
00:20:16,620 --> 00:20:14,679
boards and stuff like that that to me is

453
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:16,630
definitely within the realm of

454
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:19,120
possibility well i mean i think it's

455
00:20:23,820 --> 00:20:21,490
it's frequently reported these

456
00:20:26,250 --> 00:20:23,830
electrical effects but i mean what are

457
00:20:28,020 --> 00:20:26,260
you skeptical of when you say you're

458
00:20:29,850 --> 00:20:28,030
you're you're skeptical of that I mean

459
00:20:32,220 --> 00:20:29,860
what I've heard is the possible

460
00:20:34,049 --> 00:20:32,230
explanation and I don't worry about the

461
00:20:36,090 --> 00:20:34,059
explanations too much I kind of focus on

462
00:20:37,890 --> 00:20:36,100
whether there's a reality to the

463
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:37,900
phenomenon whether it falsifies the

464
00:20:43,230 --> 00:20:41,290
crazy skepticism kind of position but

465
00:20:47,130 --> 00:20:43,240
what I've heard is that it's not so much

466
00:20:51,690 --> 00:20:47,140
it's that it's the preferred method it's

467
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:51,700
just the overlap if you will it's where

468
00:20:57,900 --> 00:20:55,090
those two worlds or realms or whatever

469
00:21:00,659 --> 00:20:57,910
they are have some kind of overlap is in

470
00:21:04,140 --> 00:21:00,669
that electromagnetic field that you're

471
00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:04,150
talking about that's kind of like I

472
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:06,400
think that can almost get into ghosts

473
00:21:10,770 --> 00:21:08,080
and things like that to like I think

474
00:21:12,330 --> 00:21:10,780
there's there's maybe possible ways that

475
00:21:14,159 --> 00:21:12,340
it's just kind of like a dimensional

476
00:21:16,650 --> 00:21:14,169
slip or something like that I mean some

477
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:16,660
people some people get kind of offended

478
00:21:20,220 --> 00:21:18,250
when you start talking like that because

479
00:21:21,659 --> 00:21:20,230
you know people want to people want to

480
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:21,669
see her they have seen goes to their

481
00:21:25,020 --> 00:21:22,960
loved ones and maybe you know maybe

482
00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:25,030
that's a possibility to it's almost like

483
00:21:29,490 --> 00:21:28,390
I don't know what was I reading the I

484
00:21:31,650 --> 00:21:29,500
was reading something the other day

485
00:21:33,539 --> 00:21:31,660
where they're talking about how he can

486
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:33,549
almost if you could look into rock

487
00:21:37,020 --> 00:21:35,410
somehow and project all the things

488
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:37,030
that's happened around a rock in the

489
00:21:41,250 --> 00:21:39,760
past as a video or it was some guy was

490
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:41,260
talking about his wedding ring he could

491
00:21:45,049 --> 00:21:43,360
he could pull images out of it or

492
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:45,059
something like that

493
00:21:50,970 --> 00:21:47,290
you know that's the problem I think with

494
00:21:54,419 --> 00:21:50,980
the paranormal in general and I think

495
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:54,429
it's why like in this movie it red

496
00:21:59,370 --> 00:21:56,410
lights me we really want to put it in

497
00:22:00,900 --> 00:21:59,380
this laboratory you know and we really

498
00:22:05,490 --> 00:22:00,910
want to like get to the bottom of this

499
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:05,500
and in reality if you really just think

500
00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:07,840
it through logically as soon as you step

501
00:22:12,660 --> 00:22:10,270
into that other realm and you open

502
00:22:15,090 --> 00:22:12,670
yourself up to that possibility I mean

503
00:22:17,970 --> 00:22:15,100
all freakin bets are off really right I

504
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:17,980
mean whether you can project the history

505
00:22:25,010 --> 00:22:20,559
of a rock or whether you had past lives

506
00:22:28,350 --> 00:22:25,020
or I mean all that stuff just gets so

507
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:28,360
it's impossible to resolve it it's the

508
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:31,510
famous you know how many angels fit on

509
00:22:35,460 --> 00:22:33,370
the head of a pin kind of question

510
00:22:38,539 --> 00:22:35,470
that's all you have left to answer and

511
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:38,549
then I think is the the the appeal of

512
00:22:45,210 --> 00:22:42,250
the skeptical materialist kind of

513
00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:45,220
worldview is because hey let's make it a

514
00:22:50,039 --> 00:22:47,350
closed loop system so we can control it

515
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:50,049
you know so Sigourney Weaver can debunk

516
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:52,480
everything that has that smacks of

517
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:54,490
anything paranormal that's outside of

518
00:22:59,100 --> 00:22:56,890
the you know controlled little reality

519
00:23:01,169 --> 00:22:59,110
we have that's that's what bothers me

520
00:23:05,220 --> 00:23:01,179
about it is is it's all it's all so

521
00:23:07,049 --> 00:23:05,230
focused on on debunking fraudulent

522
00:23:09,060 --> 00:23:07,059
people and it doesn't seem to take into

523
00:23:10,890 --> 00:23:09,070
account like one of the reasons why we

524
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:10,900
started up this podcast or why I wanted

525
00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:12,850
to us to talk about about people's

526
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:14,559
experiences and you've mentioned it a

527
00:23:17,970 --> 00:23:16,570
lot in your show to Alex were that's

528
00:23:20,730 --> 00:23:17,980
what's changing our paradigm right now

529
00:23:22,980 --> 00:23:20,740
is people having genuine unexplained

530
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:22,990
experiences and the debtor life-changing

531
00:23:26,430 --> 00:23:24,880
for them and whether that can be proved

532
00:23:28,110 --> 00:23:26,440
scientifically or not like who cares

533
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:28,120
they've had an experience is changing

534
00:23:34,919 --> 00:23:32,400
them and it's happening to to skeptics

535
00:23:36,810 --> 00:23:34,929
it's it's disappointing to me that they

536
00:23:38,580 --> 00:23:36,820
would focus so much on the science and

537
00:23:41,130 --> 00:23:38,590
debunking and having to prove stuff that

538
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:41,140
it kind of just takes that genuine

539
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:44,010
experience away from him

540
00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:46,290
and that's pretty ironic right how

541
00:23:50,690 --> 00:23:48,600
science science seems like it always

542
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:50,700
seems to turn out that science is wrong

543
00:23:55,130 --> 00:23:53,490
about [\h__\h] everything eventually like

544
00:23:58,580 --> 00:23:55,140
if you look back over the history of

545
00:24:00,080 --> 00:23:58,590
[\h__\h] everything we always thought or

546
00:24:02,030 --> 00:24:00,090
everything we thought we were pretty

547
00:24:04,610 --> 00:24:02,040
well sure of it's just a matter of time

548
00:24:07,490 --> 00:24:04,620
till we figure out we were completely

549
00:24:09,940 --> 00:24:07,500
wrong and then but but science still

550
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:09,950
seems to go forward with the same

551
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:13,890
arrogance and and dogma and it's just

552
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:16,290
like you can just see like but while

553
00:24:21,820 --> 00:24:17,850
we're laughing at what they thought was

554
00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:21,830
real 50 years ago yeah was I was that's

555
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:23,640
reminds me you know we're talking

556
00:24:29,780 --> 00:24:25,290
earlier about kids and stuff and I was

557
00:24:34,420 --> 00:24:29,790
reminded that in the 1950s the the

558
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:34,430
popular very well established truth was

559
00:24:40,550 --> 00:24:37,290
you're never supposed to like hug your

560
00:24:42,380 --> 00:24:40,560
kid or god forbid you know kiss your

561
00:24:44,030 --> 00:24:42,390
kids show affection like that all you'll

562
00:24:46,340 --> 00:24:44,040
just you know totally screw them up I

563
00:24:48,740 --> 00:24:46,350
mean and that's just kind of buried in

564
00:24:51,890 --> 00:24:48,750
that it's a soft science but hey that's

565
00:24:53,330 --> 00:24:51,900
science right and I mean how many how

566
00:24:55,370 --> 00:24:53,340
many of us are messed up to this day

567
00:24:57,260 --> 00:24:55,380
because our parents I was just I was

568
00:24:59,210 --> 00:24:57,270
just gonna say that explains a lot and

569
00:25:00,650 --> 00:24:59,220
now and now they're finding out that you

570
00:25:02,420 --> 00:25:00,660
know actually the study show that

571
00:25:04,130 --> 00:25:02,430
hitting your kid is really bad and that

572
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:04,140
like touching and loving and artists is

573
00:25:10,250 --> 00:25:08,010
so much more beneficial exactly okay

574
00:25:14,420 --> 00:25:10,260
maybe we've uh maybe we've handled the

575
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:14,430
red lights enough let's wrap it up and

576
00:25:20,830 --> 00:25:17,850
mol la what should we do next should we

577
00:25:24,010 --> 00:25:20,840
give it stars we have it skeptical stars

578
00:25:26,330 --> 00:25:24,020
how could we do that do we have to

579
00:25:30,290 --> 00:25:26,340
Darren folks if you haven't listened to

580
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:30,300
her America Darren is is has a unique

581
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:34,650
talent at rating things so it's usually

582
00:25:39,050 --> 00:25:36,450
synchronicities anger America but on

583
00:25:44,330 --> 00:25:39,060
here Darren i'm just going to totally

584
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:44,340
yield to you in terms of how many skepta

585
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:47,610
tron's does does this does this movie

586
00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:53,760
get 4.7 what four points out at all out

587
00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:55,110
of ten now

588
00:25:59,030 --> 00:25:56,700
give it a five point seven out of ten

589
00:26:03,110 --> 00:25:59,040
yeah well I thought you're not a fireman

590
00:26:05,660 --> 00:26:03,120
first it was just it was good at times

591
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:05,670
but then at other times it was just

592
00:26:12,289 --> 00:26:09,090
tough the bathroom fight scene gave it

593
00:26:14,539 --> 00:26:12,299
an extra half a point you reminded the

594
00:26:17,030 --> 00:26:14,549
bathroom fights he reminded me a Family

595
00:26:19,310 --> 00:26:17,040
Guy where they just won't let go that's

596
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:19,320
getting to me go on and on and on you

597
00:26:24,410 --> 00:26:21,210
know fighting a chicken you know it's

598
00:26:27,650 --> 00:26:24,420
like thanks again to the Kazakh

599
00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:27,660
primerica Darren Graham red for joining

600
00:26:32,419 --> 00:26:30,049
me on this inaugural edition of

601
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:32,429
skeptical at the movies I don't know how

602
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:34,290
often will get to this but if you like

603
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:36,690
it will probably do more of these so let

604
00:26:39,530 --> 00:26:38,010
me take up a very simple question for

605
00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:39,540
this movie red lights and that would be

606
00:26:44,150 --> 00:26:41,910
why did you think a red lights the movie

607
00:26:45,590 --> 00:26:44,160
as usual the place to share your

608
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:45,600
thoughts is through the skeptical

609
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:50,730
website at ske pti KO kaam will probably

610
00:26:54,289 --> 00:26:52,410
get a nice little forum discussion going

611
00:26:56,030 --> 00:26:54,299
about this or you can just leave a

612
00:26:59,780 --> 00:26:56,040
comment there on the website or drop me

613
00:27:01,730 --> 00:26:59,790
a note as usual of course as usual you

614
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:01,740
can visit the skeptical website to

615
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:04,770
download almost 300 previous episodes of

616
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:06,690
skeptic oh you know skeptical listener

617
00:27:11,180 --> 00:27:08,400
reminded me the other day that it's not

618
00:27:13,070 --> 00:27:11,190
really 300 I have some very old shows

619
00:27:15,740 --> 00:27:13,080
that are missing and a couple that I've

620
00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:15,750
taken down for various reasons but

621
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:18,809
almost 300 shows on every topic

622
00:27:24,530 --> 00:27:22,410
imaginable in this general area so check

623
00:27:27,470 --> 00:27:24,540
it out download them subscribe whatever

624
00:27:29,060 --> 00:27:27,480
you feel serves you as i mentioned i

625
00:27:31,940 --> 00:27:29,070
have a couple more of these coming up so